UFF

Dr. Roboevil wrote:

There was an issue in the BBS regarding spam. Ever since we couldn't post there. In fact, looking at the bbs again, There's the spam once again.

Well, i have no problem posting there, maybe i am out of blocking range?

Maybe?

As regards the Try thing, perhaps ask Zax for his latest Project G Try (unless you already have it)? It's probably the only other really bulky try out there (as in, there's alot of code involved). (Not sure about Yours/Xeliumdox's UFF Try)

Also a list of Trys from the wiki (although you might have all of them.)

TheBlueEcho wrote:Maybe?

Well, i have not much clue what's going on.

TheBlueEcho wrote: As regards the Try thing, perhaps ask Zax for his latest Project G Try (unless you already have it)? It's probably the only other really bulky try out there (as in, there's alot of code involved). (Not sure about Yours/Xeliumdox's UFF Try)
Also a list of Trys from the wiki (although you might have all of them.)

That will help, i'll run through all of them for testing, and suggesting everyone to do it, don't forget, different PC or settings can affect whether errors appear or not.

Flandre Scarlet wrote:-snip-

It's called debug version for a reason, new system for a public test by people, ofcourse it will have errors (to be fixed in the official patch), and there's a chance they will not be fixed if none of you will help finding them, and not just say 'there's errors', report what are errors/when they happen, including script code when they happen or situation, so far i tested a few scripts and there was no visible errors in replays, sorry to say, but it's you are the one who missing the point.

Flandre Scarlet wrote:-snip-

Firstly, I understand that it's your opinion, but it don't means that if it's not useful for you it's useless for everyone, sorry to burst your bubble, but there are a number of people who really need this function to be operational, including but not limited to myself, Zaximillian, Dualer and possibly AlexMdle, and we are making an actual products on fraxy engine rather than just resources.

Secondly, what we are making is, STG, and main concern about STG's nowadays is, scoring, yes, knowing you or this site in general, i am expecting something like 'scoring is useless', but let's continue.

Thirdly, replays are a good and reliable way to submit a score, and also a way to share a good memorization path for the games for which that applies, and therefore possible learning experience for the new players, of course replays feature is not present in every STG, since difficulty of writing a stable way to record player actions varies depending on how game was created, but where it's present, it needs to be reliable enough to be able to record everything without errors, not every STG player has good enough hardware to be able to record video of gameplay, especially considering non-stability of fraxy engine on lower-end hardware.

Fourthly, considering that replays is more stable and reliable way of sharing experience than videos due to fraxy engine's current resource-demanding nature, and considering that replays are pretty much required for a serious score play, which we, as developers, are aiming for, replays cannot be considered useless in any way.

Fifthly, you would say that everyone has higher-end hardware, my answer is, no, many STG players have, in fact, pretty weak hardware, we have example even on this forum, Zaximillian has pretty lower-end hardware, and for a reliable way to play for score, high-end hardware should not be a requirement.

And finally sixthly, so far, there was no sort of new bugs with this debug version, i tested a number of scripts, so i do not understand the whole thing about 'new bugs', it's not confirmed whether they are there or not, with is why this is debug version, we are there to find these bugs, if they are there.

With that, please think before posting next time, if possible.

Cheers.

Dr. Roboevil wrote: Well, i have no problem posting there, maybe i am out of blocking range?

Sorry, this isn't really possible knowing the hosting site Mon used.

However, It could be that Mon Blocked out the usage of symbols we normally use for typing.
Could be that we really need to use Japanese, then...?

Dr. Roboevil wrote: Firstly, I understand that it's your opinion, but it don't means that if it's not useful for you it's useless for everyone, sorry to burst your bubble, but there are a number of people who really need this function to be operational, including but not limited to myself, Zaximillian, Dualer and possibly AlexMdle, and we are making an actual products on fraxy engine rather than just resources.

Ever hear the phrase "The sacrifice of few for the good of many?" (Or some variation of that.) This perfectly applies to this. I'm not saying it's bad that Mon's doing this, it's just that it's not worth it. I'd rather have this be a part of a larger update that is more relevant to a wider spectrum of people than just three or four. The version he has out now that is out only really applies to the ones who want the replay version, which is useless for those who don't feel like making long TRY files (Read: The majority)

Dr. Roboevil wrote:Secondly, what we are making is, STG, and main concern about STG's nowadays is, scoring, yes, knowing you or this site in general, i am expecting something like 'scoring is useless', but let's continue.

Of course you'd expect something like that as a sort of response, and there's two reasons for that.
1.) You preached it like a fanatic, and just like a fanatic, you argue with anyone who tells you otherwise.
And 2.) The points in Shooter Games are exactly like the points in 'Whose Line is it Anyway,' they don't matter.

Dr. Roboevil wrote:Thirdly, replays are a good and reliable way to submit a score, and also a way to share a good memorization path for the games for which that applies, and therefore possible learning experience for the new players,

See above for my response to submitting score.
I'd rather play the game to learn the stage, not stare at a screen and do nothing in the hopes of learning it. Experience is the best ways to learn, and you don't get great by just watching someone play, you're just not ignorant about it.

Dr. Roboevil wrote:of course replays feature is not present in every STG, since difficulty of writing a stable way to record player actions varies depending on how game was created, but where it's present, it needs to be reliable enough to be able to record everything without errors, not every STG player has good enough hardware to be able to record video of gameplay, especially considering non-stability of fraxy engine on lower-end hardware.

If I wanted to go and see myself destroy a boss, I'd go and do it. I wouldn't watch a replay of me doing it, because that'd take away any fun and challenge experienced from it. Replays only real purpose are basically just to show off. I fail to see why anyone would rather watch a replay of them killing a boss instead of just doing it. The latter would be much more enjoyable.

Dr. Roboevil wrote:Fourthly, considering that replays is more stable and reliable way of sharing experience than videos due to fraxy engine's current resource-demanding nature, and considering that replays are pretty much required for a serious score play, which we, as developers, are aiming for, replays cannot be considered useless in any way.

SnipeHeart wrote:See above for my response to submitting score.

SnipeHeart wrote:If I wanted to go and see myself destroy a boss, I'd go and do it. I wouldn't watch a replay of me doing it, because that'd take away any fun and challenge experienced from it. Replays only real purpose are basically just to show off. I fail to see why anyone would rather watch a replay of them killing a boss instead of just doing it. The latter would be much more enjoyable.

Dr. Roboevil wrote:Fifthly, you would say that everyone has higher-end hardware, my answer is, no, many STG players have, in fact, pretty weak hardware, we have example even on this forum, Zaximillian has pretty lower-end hardware, and for a reliable way to play for score, high-end hardware should not be a requirement.

I don't remember Flan ever mentioning something about how good of a computer or anything is required for playing a Shooter game, although I do agree with the idea that a game shouldn't need a fantastic computer. (Says me, the person who's computer is a pile of crap.)

Dr. Roboevil wrote:And finally sixthly, so far, there was no sort of new bugs with this debug version, i tested a number of scripts, so i do not understand the whole thing about 'new bugs', it's not confirmed whether they are there or not, with is why this is debug version, we are there to find these bugs, if they are there.

I haven't tried it and tested it, because I don't need a need to. Replay doesn't apply to me, so I don't see a point other than out of the generosity of my heart, but I do have more important things to do than to download some random TRY(s) and go through it testing for bugs. If someone asked me to test something for them to get different results, I would. Anything outside of that, I'll pass.

Dr. Roboevil wrote:With that, please think before posting next time, if possible.

Cheers.

You're welcome.

@SnipeHeart

Firstly, sacrifices are'nt really a good thing, especially while building a stable STG engine, and we, as developers, making a STG's on the engine for a way more wider audience than resources most of fraxy community making, with that we are technically a majority, though considering number of resource makers there, i suppose you are right up to some point, well again, the version is called a debug version for a reason, is not to be used by any makers, is to be tested by players.

Secondly, my point about score is gathered from the whole STG community in general, as much as it's not seems to be appreciated in this community, it's valid, well, i can agree though that many of STG players are fanatics in some way, but as a part of STG community for a long time, i can't understand you fully, sorry.

Thirdly, i understand your opinion on this, but as far as i know, it varies depending on player, some players learn one way, some learn another way, by watching professional scoreplay people notice a few things to do there and there to improve their own runs, resulting in getting better, though again, don't applies to all of people i suppose.

Fourthly, it's only one of replay's purposes is to show off, as i explained above how a good number of people improve their runs on the game, and as i stated before replays are part of score validating, especially for people who are not able to record videos, though i could guess you are not a score player so let's stop discussing scoring at that, before it turns into a fight between scoring and non-scoring, seems like different kind of players can't understand each other well.

Fifthly, a few times i tested on lower-end hardware, running fraxy engine even on lowest settings and recording at same time produces choppy experience either on playing end, or recording end, or even both, i am glad you agree on that point though.

Sixthly, nobody is trying to force you to test something, all i am trying to do is to get as many different players with different hardware specs to do it, though sorry if that sounded like forcing, sometimes i am getting a bit too far.

With that, glad to hear your opinion, but as i just said, let's not turn this thread into a fight between scoreplayers and non-scoreplayers, or worse, a fight between developers and resource makers.

Cheers.

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@Flandre Scarlet

Firstly, that you don't care don't means anyone else don't cares, this is very selfish of you, i suppose.

Secondly, scoring is almost always a top priority, well, at least in STG Community, many of the players considering lack of developed scoring system as a flaw, as far as i know.

Thirdly, that's possibility, but then rebuilding the whole code from scratch will break compatibility with a whole lot of content already created or in progress, unless you mean rebuilding just the replay code, in which case, there may be the other reasons he can't do it, and also, 'you really shouldn't be playing games on your PC', that sort of response every developer should avoid, the top problem of PC gaming nowadays is hardware compatibility, that's why a number of people prefer PCB's and consoles, but as PC developers, or at least, developers of the STG for a PC, our goal is to reduce amount of these compatibility problems, as i am saying again, a good number of STG players are playing on a low-resource laptops or similar.

Fourthly, people do change that option, even on lowest settings there are problems with running fraxy and recording at same time, as i stated in the response to SnipeHeart, though i do agree it's possible to run only fraxy with lowest settings on low-medium-end hardware, but there are still problems on the very-low-end hardware as far as i know.

Fifthly, you both misunderstood mon's post in a great way, there has not been stated that there's any known errors in the debug version, as far as i tested yesterday it works perfectly fine, but it still needs more testing from other configurations of the hardware, which can be a possible cause of the replay problems earlier (Medako's/Dualer's synchronization problems), which is why i am searching for testers.

Sixtly, there was no aggressive nature in my post, and if there was, you are probably misunderstood what i was saying, and i used only those people as examples, who stated themselves as examples earlier, as far as i know, your posts on the other side are often selfish and rude, think about other people first, not yourself, though this one your post was less rude than your other recent posts, which is an improvement in some way, i suppose.

And vulnerable to what exactly, i do not understand.

Cheers.

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Edit:
@Garoslaw

Sorry, did not noticed your post at the time of writing this reply.
Well, that might be the case then, though, bots are still posting fine in english.

The fraxy versions page on the site has been updated for the first time in two years.

We had a versions page?

For those who don't know yet, Mon has a Twitter.

The next update will include This, This, This, This and This

...Probably.

New picture from mon's twitter: